Moneda de fantasía: ADEFONSVS REX

Hi,

i am a collector from germany and i don´t speak spanish, so i try in english:

Maybe your forum can help me with this coin:




Diameter is 23mm, weight 3,74g, pure Gold

It seems to be a gold coin from a ruler called Alfonso King of Castile,
but i didn´t find a similar piece and there is no mint the "R" (under castle) could stand for. (or?)

So, me and some other collectors from germany think this could be a forgery or a replica or fantasie-coin.
I am very interested in to find out what this coin is about. Maybe i will find an answer here.

Thanks for helping,

supershine

Supershine Hallo, willkommen auf OMNI. :cheers:
Ich werde das Google Übersetzer und sehen, ob wir verstehen können.
Kein Zweifel, dies ist ein Fantasy-Münze, da es keine ähnliche Regel in einem von Kastilien, beide Jungs wie die Legende: ADEFONSVS
Die frühesten Darstellungen des Schlosses erscheint Alfonso VIII, aber nicht in Gold und auch mit anderen Legenden.
In der Regierungszeit von Alfonso VIII Alfonso XI Alfonso X und Legenden sind in der Regel:
ANFVS REX - ALFONS REX - REX ALFONSVS

Es ist mit "R"

Greetings.
Supershine Hello welcome to OMNI. :cheers:
I will use the Google translator and see if we can understand.
No doubt this is a fantasy coin, since there is no similar rule in any of Castile, both guys like the legend: ADEFONSVS
The earliest representations of a castle appear Alfonso VIII but not in gold and also with other legends.
In the reign of Alfonso VIII Alfonso XI Alfonso X and legends are usually:
ANFVS REX - ALFONS REX - REX ALFONSVS

There is no mint the "R"

Greetings.

Hola Supershine bienvenido a OMNI.
Usaré el traductor de Google y a ver si podemos entendernos.
Sin duda se trata de una moneda de fantasía, pues no existe ninguna parecida en ningún reinado de Castilla, tanto por los tipos como por la leyenda: ADEFONSVS
Las primeras representaciones de un castillo aparecen con Alfonso VIII pero no en oro y además con otro tipo de leyendas.
En los reinados de Alfonso VIII, Alfonso X y Alfonso XI las leyendas suelen ser:
ANFVS REX - ALFONS REX - ALFONSVS REX

No existe la marca "R"

Saludos.

R de replica.
Saludos.

Hi flumen,

thank you for your point of view and welcoming me!
There are some things make me still wonder about this coin.

The legend "ADEFONSVS REX", which is obviously very rare, i found only on coins from Alfonso IX:
http://www.coretech.cc/CT3/clients/coretech/clients/vico/index.php?page=lotShow;lotid=505900

http://www.maravedis.net/alfonso9.html

http://ceres.mcu.es/pages/ResultSearch?txtSimpleSearch=Alfonso%20IX%20de%20Castilla%20Le%F3n&simpleSearch=0&hipertextSearch=1&search=simpleSelection&MuseumsSearch=MDPS%7C&MuseumsRolSearch=1&listaMuseos=%5BMuseo%20de%20las%20Peregrinaciones%20y%20de%20Santiago%5D

http://www.fonsado.com/2010/03/monedas-con-ceca-en-leon.html

and just 1 time on a gold coin:

http://www.treasurerealm.com/coinpapers/iberian/Castile_and_Leon.html

Citación :

Iberia, Leon, Alfonso IX (Gold Dinero 1188AD-1230AD)
O Lion passant to right
ADEFONSVS REX
R Equilateral cross
LEGIO CITIVAS

..


A collector from an german forum thinks, that it could be a [german:] "Stempelkopplung"
(google tranlates it like this: stamp coupling / sello de acoplamiento - coin which is struck with two dies and the dies doesn´t belong together)
He suggests a stamp coupling with the "castle" side from an pepion and the "cross" side from a maravedi.
Could this be possible in the following way? :
Maybe it is not a fantasy-coin as usual, maybe it is some kind of a [german:] "Gefälligkeitsprägung"
(google tranlates it like this: complacency stamping / complacencia estampado - coin which is struck from someone with access to dies (maybe selfmade) for someone who pays for)

..

Until there is no comparative piece, the coin is an unikum and offers still some kind of mystery to me.
And this is what makes numismatics so nice :D

.....

Hi laliebre,

laliebre escribió:

R de replica.
Saludos.

Ok, or maybe the R stands for Reconquista ;)
.
.
Just kidding.

Question: when there is a Replica, there must be an original somewhere?? Or not?
This would be that kind of information which could solve this case. I don´t find...yet.


Thanks a lot so far and every further ideas are still welcome!

Regards,

supershine

Buenas tardes Supershine, no se ofenda pero el Castillo parece el de Disneyland (Paris).
Saludos.

Ah, Disneyland, yeah, but I miss the roller coster. Maybe i find a another piece with one on it.


Sometimes fantasy-coins could become real expensive, have a look a this "coin":
https://www.kuenker.de/AuktionDetail_en.kuenker?lager=00061&los=1221
Strange.

The last hours I learned a lot about what "collectors" with obviously to much money can create. Ok its not numismatics, but .... fantastic :cyclops:.

Regards and Good Bye

perhaps, could be a coin from the newspapers ou journals collections ?..... maybe

Sehr geehrte Supershine
Alfonso IX tatsächlich Geld (Vlies) mit REX ADEFONSVS Legenden aber als König von Leon geprägt, denn er war nie König von Kastilien, als Legende gemeint ... REX CA (STELLE).
Neben dieser König nur bekannte Art Goldmünzen moravetinos.
Dies ist nicht jede Art von Antwort oder unveröffentlichte Währung ist auf jeden Fall ein Fantasy-Medaille.
Sowohl die Art der Burg, wie der Buchstabe A esteas nicht typisch für Münzen, und die R Marke nirgends dokumentiert.

Aber wenn man weiter denken, dass eine Münze authentisch und einzigartig ist lieber, nicht für mich zu nehmen, die Illusion. :D

Greetings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Estimado supershine
Efectivamente Alfonso IX acuñó dineros (de vellón) con leyendas de ADEFONSVS REX pero como rey de León, pues nunca fue rey de Castilla, como quiere indicar la leyenda ...REX CA(STELLE).
Ademas de este rey solo se conocen acuñaciones en oro del tipo moravetinos.
No se trata de ningún tipo de réplica ni de moneda inedita, es sin duda una moneda de fantasia.
Tanto el tipo de castillo, como la letra A no son típicas de esteas acuñaciones, y la marca R no está documentada en ningún lugar.

Pero si prefiere seguir pensando de que es una moneda auténtica y única, no seré yo quién le quite la ilusión. :D

Saludos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Supershine
Alfonso IX actually coined money (fleece) with REX ADEFONSVS legends but as king of Leon, because he was never king of Castile, as legend meant ... REX CA (STELLE).
Besides this king only known type gold coinage moravetinos.
This is not any kind of reply or unpublished currency is definitely a fantasy coin.
Both the type of castle, like the letter A esteas not typical of coinage, and the R mark is not documented anywhere.

But if you prefer to continue thinking that a coin is authentic and unique, not for me to take away the illusion. :D

Greetings.

Hi Flumen,

Yes, Alfonso IX was King of Lion not Castile, i found out too. Thats the clue.
But you misunderstood my last posting, there is no illusion of autentica anymore.
Unique - yes - unless a second piece is described anywhere - indeed. But a kind of roller coster in Disneyland one

Regards